Transcript

Approximate read time: 56 minutes

Orren: Hi Bart and Joe welcome and thanks for making time to talk today.

Joe:  No Problem.

Orren:  So I’ve known you guys for quite some time now and I think we’ve reconnected when you were looking for a videographer for the project, so I kind of want to kick this interview off with a bit of background of who you both are and kind of specifically around your audio DJing and promoting backgrounds and then how that started your journey to where you are right now.

Joe: Actually my background in marketing just out of Adelaide University and then I was doing that degree I was at Griffin Alliance doing DJ promotions or night club promotions and then I guess that whole atmosphere there was which was very much I guess a little bit unorthodox but good in terms of the fact that it was a like a bit like a startup transitioned into eventually doing our own startup which is what lead to this part of Uamp.

Bart: Well yeah mine is a little bit different I studied bio-medical engineering, so I come for an engineering background and I also worked with Joe and Orren yourself I mostly worked as a DJ so I wasn’t really involved in the marketing aspect as much but like Joe said the whole set of startup culture and sort of just learning how the business worked just really opened up my eyes to what was possible so that’s kind of I guess, where I sort of I developed kind of an interest in developing my own business.

Orren:  So post Griffin Alliance how did you come across to SAYES program and how did that fit into the bigger picture of the Uamp and then that startup before Uamp, Umidi?

Joe: That’s when we first began doing Umidi our first startup basically we need help we needed to get some advice and I guess the only thing available in Adelaide at the time was SAYES so that’s how that came about it instead of looking around for a way to get help and that popped up.

Bart: We’re doing our first startup which a was like a massive failure but we were looking basically at what Joe said we just wanted to see what was available and at that time there wasn’t really any sort of hardware startup community that we could find in Adelaide and anything that we really see stood out was the SAYES program so we just jump on to that and tried to get in we actually thought twice before we get in.

Orren: Can you just mention what Umidi is, you mention that there a hardware startup can you just give a bit of background of what that product was.

Joe: Yeah sure so that was our 1st attempt in making a hardware product and putting it on Kickstarter and basically it was the world’s first custom deejay controller so we design a deejay controller that was very–on our end very easy to create different version so basically someone could come to our website use our interface to drag and drop what things they wanted on their personal controller, they could choose colours, different layers of edging all that short of stuff and then we would do it to order and then we would do it to order and ship it to them and we put that on Kickstarter. Marketing wise it was a great success because it would share like everywhere we got actually a lot more a bit coverage than we did with Uamp but we just didn’t really hit the right path of point and we didn’t really get what the users wanted so in the end we didn’t get anywhere near that support for that project to continue.

Orren: Okay so when you mentioned previously that it was a failure was that specifically of what you just mentioned around price point and doing a product that wasn’t a match for what consumers wanted or was it more than that?

Joe: I think that’s pretty much that would be the logistics of that, we made too many assumptions we didn’t test enough with our assumptions before we went on to Kickstarter, we assumed that people were willing to pay a lot more for a much higher quality product but in the end people wanted more functionality for the press and also I think the custom aspects was over stated so you know we had all these different colours of the vast majority about 90-95% of people just wanted the two general colours, those were huge cost that was not necessary in the final product.

Orren: Okay and you also mentioned that it was shared more than Uamp we’d come to that hopefully a little bit later, I just want to then transition to what is Uamp and guess who is for and what problem where you trying to solve that in this instance you solve much better than you did with Umidi?

Joe: I think the problem with Uamp was that when you listen to music, the first thing when I was listening to music on our computer it was really great because I have a really good sound card and then I’d go outside listening to my iPhone basically it wasn’t the same as I didn’t understand why the discrepancy between sort of my computer and a good sound system verses my iPhone why is there such a discrepancy? It’s the same headphones, the same music file because there is a big discrepancy in the sound, so I went to Bart and say why is that? And he was explained to me that it was actually to do with the amp inside and your sound guard and the way it processes the audio file and I was like “well can I get the same sound that I get on my computer on my phone?” And he was like “well yeah you can you just need to build something” and that’s just that obviously be portable and that was what was sort of missing there wasn’t really a devise that was portable that could do what we wanted, there is like 1 or 2 other portable amps but they were just extremely cheap and they really didn’t do much so we needed to build something that sort of filled up that gap that’s how Uamp was born.

Orren:  Okay so you obviously both got quite different skill sets, how did you initially divide some of those tasks between both of you?

Bart: Well I’m definitely the more technical person but I think we sort of start off coming up with the idea together and the features and all the functions we both design the case and as a team and then obviously the circuit board is on to Bart, although I am helpful at finding parts and manufactures but you definitely buy some more technical one that can actually knows exactly what parts we need and how to lay it out and how to create something that is different and innovative.

Orren: Okay so how did you identify your target audiences obviously it was a problem that you face yourself and you’re forming a solution that helps you, how do you expand that to find a common group and then create a compelling product around that and I know you join your campaign you were taking feedback directly from potential users and then intergrading that into the product can you talk to me around how that process work from day one?

Joe: In the beginning I guess we didn’t really know whether it was really something people wanted but I guess the only feedback we got was from people that we know who we talk to about the product and actually thought it was a good idea and the people that we showed the product out to and they want to buy from us so that’s the first good sign I guess. But that’s the whole point of Kickstarter is to just get it out there and just see what people wanted, I think the difference between Uamp and Umidi is that Umidi took us 2 years to get to Kickstarter with Uamp it took us less than 3 months and we probably could have done it in even a shorter amount of time so the main thing is to close down quickly and get it out there in front of many people as possible and then you get a feedback.

Orren: So the difference between  and the 3 months and 2 years what do you put that down to was it an experience that you took from Umidi and all of the learnings from that?

Joe: I think it’s down to that, you can pretty much do things like 1 is obviously the experience of having already a few manufacturers that we knew in China knowing about the processes and that sort of thing that whole section definitely save a good amount of time but the other thing was just different mentality going into it. This time around we went into the Kickstarter knowing that we didn’t have to have the prefect product right off the back because we were going to get feedback from people anyway we knew that we didn’t have to spend so much time like looking at all these little details that we could work out later we just focus on basically like the most important things and that saved a lot of time and in the end it saves makes it a better product because a lot of the assumptions that we had when we go to Kickstarter is actually customers that buy the product will basically try and tell us if it’s right or wrong and there is no point of spending so much time before on these things that you really don’t have much information about when is after the customers actually tell you what they want then it’s better to spend the time there that makes more sense.

Orren: Yeah sure so is that the case also for your reward tiers, so my understanding is that you had 10 rewards and they were priced from 10 dollars up to 500 was that a process of guess work as well as working what the rewards were but also what the prices tiers were?

Joe: It was a little bit of guess work I’ll say I mean when you work out a price for like a hardware type product there is always there that little bit of guess work in it but actually we started with a lot less tiers and we added quite a few of them because of feedback from the customers the twin pack the 4 pack we’ll see life changed around like the ultimate pack and all that sort of stuff so that took away a lot of the guess work because we’ve got a lot of feedback. Just price wise obviously we looked at what we could afford to price it at with manufacturing cost and that sort of thing we try to make it as competitive as we could and affordable we want as many people as we can to experience a good a sound quality so we not going to try to like price it really high that normal people can’t afford this so I think it was a kind of combination of all those factors.

Orren: Sure so the 65 dollar tier that was the one that had the most backers with about 3,000 and that seems obvious because that was the post early single product, you’ve mentioned the double pack or the twin pack that was the 2nd most back tier that you had why would people be interested in buying 2 of them?

Joe: Those are the small product discounts if you bought 2 verses if you just bought the 1, 2 times so I think it was just a cool way for someone to give to friends or maybe someone for their family together and to get 1 like a bit an incentive to share the product with someone else and I think that sort of worth both ways it helps the people buying 2 at once because they spend a little bit less money and it helped us because it reached more people if that makes sense?

Orren: And the 500 dollar re-seller pack did you choose that based on feedback or was it just kind of a part of a bigger strategic play for recruiting distributors or was it just kind of a test to see if these is a distribution model?

Bart: It was definitely a test to see if anyone would be interested in re-selling I guess and finding people who were off the campaign who would like to sell them on a long term bases and we saw other campaigns that done it and got a lot of good feedback and that’s the main reason we did it, it’s just a test and it went very well.

Orren: Yeah by the looks of it and then 45 days for the campaign, why did you choose such a long period of time when it could have been much shorter?

Bart: I think we would have gone longer had we known our campaign would have gone the way it went; we found it was a little bit different than most campaigns. We sort of fell into a weird category where I guess a few campaigns had fallen. Instead of getting most of the funding the start of the campaign we just kind of got a very bad day kind of like a little bit out of that 45 days out of that that’s more like a lot but we did really get most of that money and we start to get things like 100 thousand and stuff and they don’t give very much towards the rest of the campaign it just starts to go down. Ours was pretty consistent the whole time as I should say going up each day the consistency was sort of around 6 thousand a day on average.

Orren: Would you put that down to?

Bart: I’m not sure.

Joe: I think it might also be like exposure some of the bigger Kickstarter project they’ve got a lot of backing behind them so they’ve already got a 15 person team and investment from someone else and all that sort of stuff so when they go on to Kickstarter the 1st few days they already got kind of like the Tech Crunch article and all that sort of big sort of thing and they get all that exposure at the front and then that starts taking off. As we came a bit unknown to most people pretty much everyone so for us to build an exposure it was sort of like a gradual thing and that’s why I think—I mean I can’t know for sure but if I were to guess we had linear sort of exposure and that why our sales were kind of linear for the whole process.

Orren: Sure, I want to come back to that exposure in a minute but just while we are on the stretch goal. Were some of those bonuses pre-plan or were they done almost in real time as they were hitting those goals. Obviously you did do some research on suppliers and manufacturers for that.

Joe: We had ideas on what we really wanted to do for stretch goals and we had some ideas of what we definitely couldn’t do and but we found very quickly that the discussions especially on a Kickstarter was a comment section for our project they just naturally started occurring around—like people started getting involved in the project and they were just really into the project so now they were actually discussing what they wanted from the product and that just really naturally lead to like stretch goal, for example we started off with just like simple adding a bag and upgrading a cable and then (pretty soon people would want a different functionality, they wanted the ports on the same side, they wanted the clip, some people wanted crazy like if we could make them into new products but obviously we couldn’t do that. But I think just being able to talk to the customers and letting them discuss it. A few times we just sort of said to them hey you know we can do another stretch goal and we’re thinking of doing this and doing that what you guys think, they came back and pretty much said like “we hated it, we want this instead” and then we just went back and looked at what it would actually cost us to do it, if it was feasible and that sort of thing and we were able to do most of them. So it was just a very awesome experience for us because we are shaping and moulding the product to what the customers wanted, which I think with that fixed thought it would have been extremely harder to do yeah. So yeah I think it really good sort of thing.

Orren: Do you think having specific stretch goals allowed you to have that consistent fund raiser?

Bart: I don’t think it helped with the consistent fundraising necessarily. I think it helped but there were points where we have reached 1 of the goal and then we hadn’t responded for a few days to the new stretch goals and we were getting just as many if not more pledges. And I think the stretch goals definitely helped, it was helpful but it wasn’t really the big chunk of it.

Orren: How important do you think having a quality for that verses marketing distribution; is there a ratio or is there all of 1 none of the other or sort of a combination of both?

Joe: It’s a combination of both and I think it is interesting to see that there is some kicks out of projects that have no products or way that the product uses as you can see and they really got a video and they do extremely well and sometimes it’s a terrible video and a terrible marketing but they got a really great product. So somehow I can tell, I think if the product is extremely innovative and the sound that everybody wants and you don’t have the best marketing, I think you can do extremely well, I think that’s the better way to go.  But then if you don’t have a good product and you rather have some good marketing because what you say about the potato salad for example get like 50 or something like that. And you saw double fines did a game and they didn’t even have a game, they just explained the concept and I guess you just bought the journey and the people so much you were willing to jump on board. And you see the campaign hadn’t had a great video but they had this really great product and you just have to buy it. The video almost pushes you away from the product but it doesn’t matter because the product is so good. I think it really depends but I would say you would really want to have both; that’s the best combination, having a good product and good marketing but if I have to choose one I would say the product.

Orren: Okay interesting.

Bart: I think having a good product makes the rest much earlier anyway because it’s much easier to make a good video and a god market campaign around a good product because you just have to basically show up to everyone and explain why it’s good you’ve seen some of them more heavily marketed but crappy products they are really reaching for reasons for why people should buy it so it just makes the whole process much harder.

Orren: So both of you guys had obviously a very professional video copywriting graphics and press kits, how important do you think those ones specifically in your case were in creating credibility and making people believe they can actually pull a product?

Joe: I think the video was obviously-you have a potential customer that comes and watches your video. So that’s us communicating with them and trying to take them on a journey, sort of say “hey this is what we are doing, this is part of what we want you to experience.” And the great thing is that it was over 5 % of people who watch the video brought product and that was our metrics. So we seeing that people who watched the video were saying yes we want. I think the video had a very important impact on that and all the other press stuff is important but I think it really goes down as the video as the most important aspect of marketing.

Orren: Can you just outline some other vital metrics you’re just monitoring during the launch?

Joe:  Yup so obviously the video views as 1 the same work such as we were going from so Kickstarter tells you what website they come from even with Kickstarter where they come from did they find you through the popular section or do they find you through just searching for your name. I think that’s about it; there wasn’t too many metrics really.

Bart: We had email sign ups. I think it boils down to mostly just going on to the Kickstarter metrics page and basically monitoring from what sections people come from and just sort of making sure that we’re hitting all the right of demographics.  Apart from that I think the next we might have to set up more varying metric systems just to put less emphasis on Kickstarter ones because it would be good to have a bit more information.

Joe: The main thing was just watching for pledgees per day. Our thing was if it went under 4k and day which I only think happened once, actually twice then we basically do as much as we can to try and boost up our campaign and keep us in the popular section of Kickstarter that would be one of the best strategy for us get this on top of the list and the more people that came with Kickstarter would be more likely to see our campaign.

Orren: So how were you actually being proactive to get in the popular section of Kickstarter?

Bart: My thing was that if you fall down we would basically send an email out to any subscribers we have we would contact anyone we have even Facebook as well I started messaging people personally about it from the old campaign and anyone who have message us on Facebook regarding Umidi, we ran a Facebook campaign as well which helped a lot on advertising and basically we’re tweaking and doing some of those things if it sort of dwindled down a bit. We also tried to get some PRs as well but we were not really successful with that. We were much more successful with PR with Umidi than we were with Uamp we got written about in many more places than Uamp and for some place Uamp was more successful. Go figure I guess.

Orren: Can you tell me how many video views that Kickstarter was able to provide stats on?

Bart: You know it doesn’t provide much stats on that video it doesn’t provide any stats on where the videos views come from expect for like whether the external or internal so that’s 70 thousand views I think 50 thousand was from persons who were on the Kickstarter campaign and it was 20 thousand was external.

Orren: Do you know right down on the top websites, top channels people found campaign through sound like an 80/20 analyses.

Joe: Yeah so most of it came through Kickstarter about 80% of the people from Kickstarter found our project and about 20% was from for example featured in Gizmag and that gave us a few thousand in pledges and there was a few small ones and there was direct pledges which was basically just from email who we emailed and asked them to pledge to us.

Orren: Okay so all the activity you were doing to get into the popular section was almost a self-contain loop that was driving more traffic back to your campaign?

Bart: Yeah I guess.

Orren: Okay and why do you think you got more PR in publicity for Umidi rather than for Uamp; was it because it product base or was it just an awareness thing?

Joe: I think I was a product base because I contacted a lot of the places that I had contacted before.  Umidi was just more sharable, it was real different and it was more innovative from that kind of perspective; people would just look at it and go “I don’t know what it is but it’s cool.” Uamp was—you would have to read about and understand it and watch the videos. I wasn’t as sharable from that perspective and it wasn’t a good story. It did not create an angle that would get readers excited

Bart: One thing that helps make Umidi more sharable was we had a section on the website where people with a business model field could design their own controller and we build it for them but you can go on the website and design your own mini controller whether you were going to buy one or not 100s or maybe a few 1000 people get on there and just design their own and share the picture on Facebook and that was very sharable but I guess in the end it didn’t really matter because the product wasn’t something somebody was willing to pay for so if—just means you have to have all the things together just to make it successful.

Orren: And Joe could you give some examples of that outreach to bloggers and the media that you use for Umidi and why that was and what some of that language look like when you’re reaching out to them.?

Joe: Yeah so with Umidi I found places that I had reviewed or talked about Deejay Gear. So some of them were like 1 of them was like deejay works which was a pretty cool site and I basically emailed the guy there whose name was Mark, “Hey Mark my Joseph; I’m working on a project that I think your leaders would be interested in basically it was the 1st custom deejay controller here is a link to our campaign and let me know if you are interested in write about it, I have also attached the press kit if you would have a look at.” And basically he get back to me in less than 24 hour and he is like, “Yeah no problems I will put out the article and have a good day” and I just pretty much repeat that to other people and that just about everyone said yes who I wrote to. it wasn’t too much of an interesting story with Uamp was basically the same thing or places I think it’s just because it was a similar story so interesting enough it’s a cool product and people like it but it wasn’t a story worth writing about I guess. But that’s just my assumption anyways.

Orren: You mentioned that you had an email list that you had some social assets from your previous program project and obviously your network as well; how much of that loyalty with in those databases did you have?

Bart: We don’t have the exact amount but it wasn’t very high but it definitely was helpful at the start but anything that kicker starter put us into the start picks which help us get up to a lot of the initial traffic and then once we pretty much make it go within in the 1st 5 min we got our 1st pledge and them it just started steam rolling and it just going from there and within the 1st day we come and get 13 thousand and then there was an average about 6 thousand so I think that the networks helped but I think it was a very small amount from the networks it was less than 5% from our networks and majority of it came from external places.

Orren: So you’re saying that your network initially put you into the start picks and then the….

Joe: No we got put into the start picks just because Kickstarter thought our project was interesting it was more just a random thing we didn’t have too much control over that, Kickstarter says “hey we like your project we’re going to put it in the staff picks” and they did and it helped get us a lot of initial pledges.

Orren: Okay, so then having an interesting product that solves a real problem for people is correlated to being into being in the staff picks and then the staff picks then creates that momentum that gets you into the popular section.

Joe: Both the staff picks and our network to help create that I guess but if I should choose one or the other that would be like 30% networks and like 70% of staff picks.

Orren: So how do you focus your resources on the area that were winning and then the areas that weren’t so cutting the loses?

Joe: I put enough time into sending out emails to get PR and after the 1st week of doing that sending out which was literally thousands of email and differentiating them and making them hold quiet differently and various strategy from Umidi that had worked and that just wasn’t really getting us much pledges at all and the best we had was from Gizmag which was from 2000 and that the rest of theme weren’t even close to that so for the time and effort that we’re putting into this is not really working so I looked for alternative sources and that’s when the Facebook advertising came into play and also just contacting people and talking to people and answering questions and really working with the custom base that we had was the big reward verses time spent and another thing I about to mention is we did something which is called cross promo so it basically that Kickstarter the projects with similar amount of backers and we said “hey like you have a great project, we have a great project why don’t we introduce your backers to our project and we introduce our backers to your project?” So basically in our updates which is sent to all of our backers we write to them about something about our project and they say “hey guys why don’t you check you these awesome project check out these guys over here they are building this really great new watch or something” and so basically the other campaign would do the same and then we would get an extra couple of grand and pledges just from doing that one thing so that was another way of getting that those pledges as well.

Orren: Yeah I saw that in some of your updates that at the bottom of all your updates had about 3 or 4 different projects.

Bart: But then again that was a ridiculous amount I guess—probably brought in about 45 or 50k of the pledges so I guess it was quite substantial from that point but I guess it wasn’t just that one thing it was that combine with Facebook combine with an email list from the start and all that together sort of kept us in the popular section so I just making sure all of those elements were always being done and balanced correctly to help us in the popular section.

Orren: I just want to go back to something that you’ve mention previously you said that you were sending out and almost thousands of email to bloggers and media was that about 2000 dollars’ worth of pledges that came in from that?

Bart: It was more than that

Joe: It was about like 8 thousand or something we got more pledge than we found out we could.

Orren: And then Facebook ads were you tracking how they were playing out in terms of conversion?

Joe: Well we basically found an agency to help us do that I actually found them because they targeted me with a Facebook ad so I though “wow if they can target me with an ad, I’m pretty sure then can target for us” so I contacted them and they ran a Facebook marketing campaign for us. They charged us $200 dollars a day for Facebook ads and for any pledges that they got from that adverting they would get 12.5%.

Orren: And where do you think most of your back is or majority of the backers came from and then moving into the future how are you going to capitalize on Uamp’s success on Kickstarter?

Joe: We are taking pre-orders at the moment and I think last week got about 2 thousand we are looking at the same for this week typically the main thing is finding stores that want to sell our product online and obviously people who were sitting on the fence and once they read the reviews and are happy with it now “yeah I’m going to buy one now because the experts said it was a good product” so I guess the main plan is to get out there as to many people as possible via in stores online and maybe in retail – keep the momentum going.

Orren: What do you think your biggest lesson or take away was and what would you do differently next time if you had the opportunity to do it all again?

Joe: I think that the biggest thing that we learnt from this campaign from our campaign is that you build something that people want so you start off with maybe you want or if it’s a problem that you’re having and create a solution to that and get it out to market as soon as you can and test you assumptions and if anything I’ll do differently it’ll probably the PR I spend a lot of time trying to get PR to work and in the end that was resulted in very little so I think I would probably done the same thing or sort of tested that earlier on and go “hey this isn’t working” and then just stop because I spent—it could be released a month earlier if I haven’t been focusing on that element.

Orren: And if you were you to distil down almost a step by step process verses creating and secondly marketing for a physical product by crowd funding what would that look like or what would that thinking process look like and I think you just saluted to it then with starting with a product or a problem that you have how would you then from that starting point or what would the process be or if you could talk through the process up until your launch some of those steps.

Bart: Breaking down the steps, the 1st step is you identify a problem or some sort of innovation I think the best is the problem because that’s the easiest way to come up with a product I’ve got this problem  the 1st test was we can fix that problem well “ok yep we can fix that problem with an amp but I can’t carry that with me so can we then put it to a portable size” so it was us working out if can be done and we’re like “yes it can be done” and then look at the features we want to have in this product and so we’d write them all down. “Okay we want to have a battery that lasts longer and these connections and this function and how’s it going to look and feel” and we go create all those things and then go okay “we’ve got a mock up, let’s turn that into a prototype” so then we would design a case or design a prototype circuit broad and we get that out of the way and the next step would be to send that to manufacturer to get that built and that’s what we did and then it got back came back and we tested it, we’re happy with it, “so okay now we got a product and and now we got to release it,” so okay now we need to, the 1st step is to create a video and I think people under estimate how long that takes just to take one of the biggest steps that took us in a more than a month to do we didn’t found anyone to do the video so we had to do it ourselves and so the next step is to film that. So you create a script, a story board first, then a script then go out and film that video, edit the video and just keep filming anything that have to do with that, you could sign a page so then you got to have photos for the page you got to have writing the page and other things to fill out there as details like bank account details and that sort of stuff and once you’re happy with all that you create a first pack in case people do want to write about you and when all that stuff in place then basically yeah you get launched and can even email and interview networks and if there is any marketing going out around on out Facebook ads have that lined up as well and the main steps after that is answering you backers and once the campaign is finished then you’ve got to now finish your product get it ready for manufacturing and continue to take pre-orders.

Orren: So then under what circumstances should someone try to go out and fundraise for a product that hasn’t been yet been created and under what circumstances is it just not the right avenue for them?

Bart: I think this is a bit of a hard question to answer depending on what the product is. I think most successes you should have already have the product created or at least 90% of the way there especially if you’re a first time creator then you should always have a product be created because the price is actually much more difficult to finalise everything then most people would think that’s why you see a lot of the hardware even some of the other things Kickstarter projects fail a lot because they under estimate just how hard it would be to finish it and also I think a lot of people are actually good at picking up how far alone the process you are people who are on Kickstarter they are very good at picking up how genuine, how authentic  you are so you don’t have a finish product and pretend that you do you’ll find that it will come across in a way you present the product and the little details that you might consciously be thinking about it where it might be something you missed but you want to be able to trick people in thinking that invest in this we’re almost done people just won’t want to give as much money does that make sense?

Orren: Sure, so what would have if someone goes out takes the information that you’ve given today what the 1-3 perhaps the steps next  immediate action steps they need  to do a Kickstarter campaign regardless if they success or not.

Bart: I think the number 1 thing would be just to make sure they have products that people want and that they themselves want that would be the number 1 step for me, what do you think Joe?

Joe: I agree with Bart, so basically the 1st step is to create something that people want and one of the easiest ways to do that is that something that you want? I guess that is the 1st starting point it is easier to create a product that you yourself want and that’s the mistake that we made with our 1st product Umidi is we said “people who want this, people will want that” but we never built a controlled for ourselves to DJ with, so that should have been the first red flag for us.  Once you have got that do something as quickly as you can that addresses that problem and then creating a video and getting it out on Kickstarter because there I no real cost to you and make if you succeed you can deliver and I guess that’s all there is just deal with the product and prototype because you can adjust the problem and then create a video and have a Kickstarter page.

Orren: Great let’s all wrap it up where can people find out more about you?

Joe: So basically you go on www.uamp.co and that’s our website and it’s got all our contact details and links to our Kickstarter campaign and any other information you might need.

Orren: Good and congrats on success and thank you for making time to have a chat to day.

Joe: Thanks Orren.

Bart: Thanks Orren.